One Federal Circuit Court just dealt these atheists a crushing blow

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For too long, secular humanists and atheists were on a winning streak against America’s traditional Christian culture.

But after overplaying their hand, things are beginning to change.

And one Federal Circuit Court just dealt these atheists a crushing blow with this decision.

A group of secular humanists, “Unitarian Universalists,” and so-called “free thinkers” sued the Pennsylvania House of Representatives to overturn a policy that prevented atheists from “praying” before the legislature opened.

After winning in a lower court, the Third Circuit Court of Appeals overturned the ruling, with Judge Thomas L. Ambro declaring in the majority opinion that “only theistic prayer can satisfy all the traditional purposes of legislative prayer.”

ChristianHeadlines reports:

The U.S. Third Circuit Court of Appeals, in a 2-1 decision, upheld the policy of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, which requires that the person who prays must be “a member of a regularly established church or religious organization.” The policy further says the prayer’s purpose is “to seek divine intervention” in the work and lives of House members.

It was the second such decision this year by an appeals court. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals in April ruled the chaplain of the U.S. House of Representatives could bar atheists from praying.

The majority opinion pointed to the Founding Fathers and noted that a day after proposing the First Amendment during the 18th century, Congress “urged President Washington to proclaim ‘a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts, the many and signal favours of Almighty God.’”

The court quoted Supreme Court precedent and argued that, historically, legislatures prayers “seek ‘divine guidance’ in lawmaking” and “allow the legislature to ‘acknowledge the place religion holds in the lives of many private citizens.’” Such prayers also “connect [lawmakers] to a tradition dating to the time of the Framers” — one that “has always included a higher power.”

It also cited the Supreme Court’s recent decision upholding the constitutionality of a 40-foot cross.

These court decisions have stemmed the tide of the atheists push to rid American culture of any resemblance to its Christian heritage, for now.

It’s a welcome relief for many Americans who hold traditional values dearly.

But though they’ve been dealt a crushing defeat with this ruling, radical atheists aren’t going to give up any time soon.

What are your thoughts?

Do you think the Third Circuit Court made the right ruling in this case?

Let us know in the comments below.

79 COMMENTS

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  2. Pro-life Catholic Cassy Fiano claims she opposes abortion on secular grounds, but writes on Live Action: “I despise hearing abortion advocates screech about the elusive separation of church and state (which doesn’t actually exist), using it as an argument for why abortion should be legal.”

    Church-state separation is not a myth (see below). A secular society is laissez-faire toward all belief AND disbelief, which protects religious minorities, atheists, agnostics, etc. This country (the United States) wasn’t founded by Christians.

    (If you expect those outside of your faith to be bound by secular arguments on to protect the unborn, will you likewise be bound by secular arguments to protect animals? Or will you cry “MOVE”! as if we were discussing some lifeless, soulless thing, devoid of religious inspiration? And when pro-lifers are shown the long history of animal advocacy within Christianity, will they say, “Animal rights are a Christian cause! Like civil rights and/or protection of unborn children. This is a cause we Christians must support!” ?)

    A Roman Catholic priest, Reverend David K. O’Rourke, said, “Every religious group in the United States is a minority group. Some may be unhappy with this status and wish they had official standing. I am not unhappy with it. The Catholic Church, the largest of these minorities, has prospered greatly in this country where we separate church and state.”

    According to journalist Rob Boston of Americans United for Separation of Church and State: “We have a vibrant, multifaith religious society that, with the exception of a few fundamentalist Muslim states, is admired all over the globe.

    “We have a degree of interfaith harmony unmatched in the world. Our government is legally secular, but our culture accommodates and welcomes a variety of religious voices. New faiths take root here without fear…

    “Americans remain greatly interested in religion and things spiritual—unlike their counterparts in Western Europe, where religion is often state subsidized but of little interest to most people….

    “Children are no longer forced to pray in school or read from religious texts against their will, yet they are free to engage in truly voluntary religious worship whenever they feel the need. The important task of imparting religious and philosophical training to youngsters is left where it always belonged—with each child’s parents or guardians…

    “Some European nations have passed so-called anticult laws aimed at curbing the rights of unpopular new religions. Such laws would not be acceptable in the United States or permitted under the First Amendment.

    “In a multifaith society such as the United States,” observes Boston, “a type of religious marketplace does exist. Religious groups that aggressively seek converts, such as the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, are well aware that people in the United States are able and even willing to change their religious beliefs. To these groups, it’s well worth it to enter the marketplace and advertise their goods. Lots of people might buy them…

    “Because the U.S. government is secular, religious groups are left to contend for members based solely on their own initiative. They create a free marketplace of religion that spurs competition and a vigorous religious life. This explains why the United States, which maintains church-state separation, retains a high degree of religiosity among its people.

    “The more sophisticated and perceptive believers realize that the separation principle is a boon to their faith,” notes Boston. “They see danger in any attempt by government to decide which religion is true and which is false.

    “They know that a faith that is in favor with the government today can be out of favor tomorrow. These believers are thankful for the free marketplace of religion and the secular state that makes it possible. They understand that the way to get new members is through persuasion, not government aid.”

    In 1787 when the framers excluded all mention of God from the Constitution, they were widely denounced as immoral and the document was denounced as godless, which is precisely what it is. Opponents of the Constitution challenged ratifying conventions in nearly every state, calling attention to Article VI, Section 3:

    “No religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

    An anti-federalist in North Carolina wrote: “The exclusion of religious tests is by many thought dangerous and impolitic. Pagans, Deists and Mohammedans might obtain office among us.”

    Amos Singletary of Massachussetts, one of the most outspoken critics of the Constitution, said that he “hoped to see Christians (in power), yet by the Constitution, a papist or an infidel was as eligible as they.”

    Luther Martin, a Maryland delegate to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 wrote that “there were some members so unfashionable as to think that a belief in the existence of a Deity, and of a state of future rewards and punishments would be some security for the good conduct of our rulers, and that in a Christian country, it would be at least decent to hold out some distinction between the professors of Christianity and downright infidelity or paganism.”

    Martin’s report shows that a “Christian nation” faction had its say during the convention, and that its views were consciously rejected.

    The United States Constitution is a completely secular political document. It begins “We the people,” and contains no mention of “God,” “Jesus,” or “Christianity.” Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as the “no religious test” clause (Article VI), and “Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” (First Amendment)

    The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase “so help me God” or any requirement to swear on a Bible (Article II, Section 1).

    The words “under God” did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when Congress, under McCarthyism, inserted them.

    Similarly, “In God we Trust” was absent from paper currency before 1956, though it did appear on some coins beginning in 1864.

    The original U.S. motto, written by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, is “E Pluribus Unum” (“Of Many, One”) celebrating plurality and diversity.

    In 1797, America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that “the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington’s presidency and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

    We are not governed by the Declaration of Independence. Its purpose was to “dissolve the political bonds,” not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based upon the idea that “governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,” which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority.

    The Declaration deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, etc., and doesn’t discuss religion at all. The references to “Nature’s God,” “Creator,” and “Divine Providence” in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Its author, Thomas Jefferson, was a Deist, opposed to Christianity and the supernatural.

    “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to me so pure as that of Jesus,” wrote Thomas Jefferson. However, Jefferson admitted, “In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man and that other parts are the fabric of very inferior minds…”

    It was Thomas Jefferson who established the separation of church and state. Jefferson was deeply suspicious of religion and of clergy wielding political power.

    Jefferson helped create the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in 1786, incurring the wrath of Christians by his fervent defense of toleration of atheists:

    “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others. But it does no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

    Jefferson advocated a “wall of separation” between church and state not to protect the church from government intrusion, but to preserve the freedom of the people:

    “I consider the doctrines of Jesus as delivered by himself to contain the outlines of the sublimest morality that has ever been taught;” he observed, “but I hold in the most profound detestation and execration the corruptions of it which have been invested by priestcraft and established by kingcraft, constituting a conspiracy of church and state against the civil and religious liberties of mankind.”

    Jefferson and the founding fathers were products of the Age of Enlightenment. Their world view was based upon Deism, secularism, and rationalism.

    “The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight,” wrote Jefferson. “The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter…we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this…”

    As late as 1820, Jefferson was convinced everyone in the United States would die a Unitarian. Jefferson, Madison and Paine’s writings indicate that America was never intended to be a Christian theocracy. “I have sworn upon the altar of God,” wrote Jefferson, “eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

    In his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Jefferson wrote:

    “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

    Similarly, in an 1824 letter to John Cartwright, Jefferson expressed anger at judges who had based rulings on their belief that Christianity is part of the common law. Cartwright had written a book critical of these judges, and Jefferson was glad to see it. Observed Jefferson:

    “The proof of the contrary, which you have produced, is controvertible; to wit, that the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced, or knew that such a character had ever existed.”

    Jefferson challenged “the best-read lawyer to produce another script of authority for this judicial forgery” and concluded, “What a conspiracy this, between Church and State!”

    As president, Jefferson put his “wall of separation” theory into practice. He refused to issue proclamations calling for days of prayer and fasting, insisting that they violate the First Amendment. As early as 1779, Jefferson proposed a bill before the Virginia legislature that would have established a series of elementary schools to teach the basics—reading, writing, and arithmetic.

    Jefferson even suggested that “no religious reading, instruction, or exercise shall be prescribed or practiced, inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination.” Jefferson did not regard public schools as the proper agent to form children’s religious views.

    As president, James Madison also put his separationist philosophy into action. He vetoed two bills he believed would violate church-state separation. The first was an act incorporating the Episcopal Church in the District of Columbia that gave the church the authority to care for the poor. The second was a proposed land grant to a Baptist church in Mississippi.

    Had Madison, the father of the Constitution, believed that all the First Amendment was intended to do was bar setting up a state church, he would have approved these bills. Instead, he vetoed both, and in his veto messages to Congress explicitly stated that he was rejecting the bills because they violated the First Amendment.

    Later in his life, James Madison came out against state-paid chaplains, writing, “The establishment of the chaplainship to Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles.” He also concluded that his calling for days of prayer and fasting during his presidency had been unconstitutional.

    In an 1819 letter to Robert Walsh, Madison wrote, “the number, the industry and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the state.” In an undated essay called the “Detached Memoranda,” written in the early 1800s, Madison wrote, “Strongly guarded… is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States.”

    In 1833 Madison responded to a letter sent to him by Jasper Adams. Adams had written a pamphlet titled “The Relations of Christianity to Civil Government in the United States,” which tried to prove that the United States was founded as a Christian nation. Madison wrote back: “In the papal system, government and religion are in a manner consolidated, and that is found to be the worst of government.”

    Madison, like Jefferson, was confident that separation of church and state would protect both the institutions of government and religion. Late in his life, Madison wrote to a Lutheran minister about this, declaring, “A due distinction… between what is due to Caesar and what is due to God, best promotes the discharge of both obligations… A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity.”

    In the early part of the 19th century, a general understanding existed that the government should not promote religion, or favor one religion over another. In 1829, Senator Richard Johnson of Kentucky wrote:

    “It is not the legitimate province of the Legislature to determine what religion is true, or what is false. Our Government is a civil and not a religious institution. Our Constitution recognizes in every person the right to choose his own religion, and to enjoy it freely, without molestation. Whatever may be the religious sentiments of citizens, and however variant, they are alike entitled to protection from the Government, so long as they do not invade the rights of others…

    “Among all the religious persecutions with which almost every page of modern history is stained, no victim ever suffered but for violation of what Government denominated the law of God. To prevent a similar train of evils in this country, the Constitution has wisely withheld from our Government the power of defining the divine law.”

  3. Whether we’re a democracy or a republic is subject to debate, but I agree with the founding fathers on the Constitution and separation of church and state. The First Amendment reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (meaning the government can’t favor one religion over another) nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    “…respecting an establishment of religion,” in a broader sense of the word, really does mean freedom of belief. Thomas Jefferson was laissez-faire (“hands-off!”) towards all belief and disbelief, not caring whether his neighbor believes in twenty gods or no god. Religious leaders warned that if Jefferson were elected, Bibles would be confiscated, churches would be closed down, etc. Clearly, that didn’t happen. Secularists are NOT atheists.

    Most violations of church-state separation, however, are not coming from Muslims, but from Christians pushing their religion on others where it doesn’t belong: Christian prayers in the public schools; Christian prayers before city council meetings; theistic expressions like “In God We Trust” on coins and currency; theistic expressions like “one nation under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance, etc.

    We’re NOT talking about radical Islam and beheadings, but about Muslim Americans and persons merely mistakenly perceived to be Muslim (e.g., Sikhs, Hindus, Bahai’s and Buddhists) facing discrimination here in the United States.

    The Department of Justice noted that it has investigated over a thousand hate crimes and other acts of discrimination against faith groups since September 11th, 2001. This disturbing trend correlates to a steady rise in crimes committed against Muslims and those perceived to be Muslim. The real 2014 total of anti-Muslim hate crimes could be as many as six thousand or more.

    In February 2016, a still-unidentified suspect broke into a Minneapolis mosque and vandalized it. Earlier, a Spokane, Wash., man broke into a local Sikh gurdwara and caused $35,000 worth of damage; he told police he believed he had discovered a mosque affiliated with ISIS. And a Buddhist monk was attacked in Oregon after a man mistook him for a Muslim.

    The Lincoln County Commission in North Carolina Chair Carrol Mitchem told local news outlets in 2015 that he has no intention of allowing any non-Christians to offer invocations before commission meetings because Christians constitute a majority in the United States. “I don’t need no Arab or Muslim or whoever telling me what to do or us here in the county what to do about praying,” Mitchem said. “If they don’t like it, stay the hell away.”

    That is what religious discrimination actually looks like.

    It’s a far cry from asking bakers to obey public accommodation laws.

    Joseph Callahan similarly commented on the Huffington Post in 2015:

    “It is pretty hard now days to turn on the television or open a newspaper without hearing about ‘the war on Christianity’ and see devout believers lamenting on how horribly they are ‘persecuted’ in America today. With gay marriage, abortion and atheists removing God from every aspect of the government, it seems pretty obvious that we secular citizens are using separation of church and state as a new battlefield against religion. How horrible a life American Christians must be forced to live.

    “In Iran, Christians are being executed for their faith. In Myanmar, you can be thrown in prison just for owning a Bible. In North Korea, well, you face death just for believing any god exists. The 2015 report from the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) shows that thirteen million people have fled seven countries (Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Central African Republic (CAR), Eritrea, Burma, and Afghanistan). Many of those displaced are Christians, and mostly due to fear of violence and/or death.

    “The Bible, and distributing it, is restricted in over fifty countries worldwide, and spreading the gospel will land you in jail or executed in many of those. But none of this compares to the wholly American horror of (possibly) being forced to bake a cake for a gay wedding! How could we compare the American ‘war on Christianity’ to the Christians (and other religious beliefs) persecuted worldwide? I mean, our own little bubble, and our own discomforts in the first world are all that really matter. The rest of the world isn’t us, so we shouldn’t compare ourselves to them, right?

    “In America today, you can proudly say, ‘I’m a Christian’ and carry a Bible with you everywhere you go. You can go to any church you want to without being arrested. You can say anything you want! You can even proclaim that you worship the Giant Spaghetti Monster, and all the persecution you will receive is strange looks from some people.’

    “Yet, in this, one of the most religiously tolerant nations, Christians are screaming persecution just because our laws are changing to embrace everyone’s belief structure. By not allowing one faith to force their beliefs down our legal throats, the country has launched a ‘war’ on (one specific) faith.”

    Anyone perceived to be Muslim, like Sikhs, Hindus, Bahai’s and Buddhists, often face the same discrimination. Religious minorities in this country are merely asking for the same level of consideration and equal treatment given to Christians.

    It was reported in the Indo-American press in either the ’90s or 2000s that a coalition of Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains were going to court to demand a completely religion-neutral society, which does not favor one religion over another, nor one set of beliefs or disbeliefs over another.

    I’m Hindu, not Muslim. The fact that American liberals refer derisively to the Christian right in this country as “the American Taliban” indicates disdain for the Islamic Taliban. Again, secularists are NOT atheists.

  4. Vasu…You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING at all about our founding fathers or our history. You just blindly believe what your lying lib leaders tell you without question. PLEASE get a brain to think for yourself and STOP cutting and pasting. It just shows your ignorance.

  5. You are completely mentally deviant, but then again knowing what I know about Hinduism that goes to reason, pray to your sacred cow recently Vasu?

  6. Vasu, We are NOT a democracy. Read the words of Ben Franklin when asked which we had…”A Republic if you can keep it”. Very easy to understand. And, NO, our founding fathers DID NOT believe in separation of church and state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They did NOT refer to that anywhere EXCEPT in a personal letter written by Thomas Jefferson. Our founding fathers attended church services in the Capitol Building, required Bibles in schools, and installed Chaplains in our military. Your ignorance is profound!!!!!!

  7. Vasu, you need to get off your computer. NO ONE wants to hear anything you have to say.

    The Third Circuit Court made the right ruling. I am sick and tired, as a Christian, to be “forced” to accept others trying to do away with Christianity and “MY” rights.

  8. Vasu…It does not matter at all whether you are secularist or atheist. If you do not come to Jesus and are saved from your sins you WILL join satan in Hell. Jesus loves you and is waiting for you. YOU get to choose Him or satan.

  9. If a person claiming to be a catholic supports abortion (which is murder) and presents him/herself to receive communion the host should burn a hole through their tongue! Atheists are a disease like transgender people – both are trying to destroy what everyone else has to establish their own brand of despair. islam and muslim are cancers and like any cancer we can live with it until it kills us or we can cut it out and trash it.

  10. Democracy vs Republic is not subject to debate. We are, have always been and will always be a Republic. Democracy is mob rule We don’t have that.

  11. You are so Correct

    However that their mode of operation. Keep talking until one other person believes you.
    Then start over again.
    They remind me of the 4 Muslims in Congress. Now if you want to blend in move to California.

  12. I’m an atheist and have been since I came u with multiverse theory in 1955. But I am also a big proponent of live and let live. I do not force my beliefs upon anyone and don’t expect anyone to force theirs on me. The so called atheist activist are stupid as are all so called activists and could use some lessons on live and let live. I think the court just gave them one.

  13. Vasu, You are at it again. I,m telling you, you are wasting your freaking time. I really wanted to examine your side but I simply don’t have that much time. In your case, less is more would be applicable. By the way, I served 2 tours in Vietnam and never saw an atheist in a foxhole. I don’t understand what they really want. If I were the biggest atheist ever I would still prefer that everyone else believe in a God to guide their lives.

  14. Dennis: How can Vasu babble, seemingly forever, and say nothing meaningful, you ask? Because he is a Democrat that’s how!! Mr. cut and paste comes on these sites for two reasons; One, to distract from normal people posting their comments and two ,he gets paid. He is every site with his propaganda nonsense……

  15. Perhaps the bloggers here at CultureWatch would realize that Vasu is.working against their best interest and block him. That seems to me an obvious contention.

  16. The raghead idiot Vasu is at it again, writing a book for a comment that nobody even cares the least about. All that time it takes for him to type all that garbage takes his time from hunting goats to have sex with.

  17. Actually bJ, I blame Culture Watch for publishing that lengthy garbage that Vasu prints. They have to know by now that he is an absolute idiot.

  18. Very much was said in the lengthy posting. I am a middle-of-the-road Catholic. I strongly believe in labor unions, and was active and a leader in my Federal labor union my entire work life as a Federal employee. You Protestants hate labor unions, but there again, most of you are ignorant hillbillies who only want guns and bibles. I prefer a diverse society. Most WASP’s even hate the Catholic Church. It is high time we tell the American Evangelical Protestant to go “F” themselves! We need to keep you NKJV bibles out of law. I want to see American Presidents taking the Oath of Office with their hand on a copy of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, NOT a Bible!

  19. Vasu appears to be a cut and paste artiste. I doubt very much that he/she/they/it spent so much time researching to write what amounts to something that would be a theme/report/thesis paper one would write for a college class on the subject of “Separation of Church and State”, “The Role of Religion in the Public Forum” or something of a similar nature.
    I did not read the entire thing through in detail after the first couple of paragraphs or so but mostly skimmed through the greater part of it. If I were to give it a grade for a discussion forum such as this one is, it would receive a big fat ‘F’! It is just far, far too long to lend itself to the casual back and forth for this type of forum.

  20. I was somewhat active in the union that represented technicians in the federal agency I worked in for 25 years. When I found that there was no real advantage to be a member, I withdrew as I paid dues but received no different pay or benefits than any other federal employee. What good did it really do you to be a member of a federal employee union?

  21. There is no debate about whether this nation is a democracy or a republic. The US Constitution established the USA as a REPUBLIC; democracy is not mentioned anywhere in our constitution.

  22. Joe, you are missing out on one of the biggest joys of this life. Knowing God and living by faith is what this life is all about. “What does it profit a man to gain the whole word and loose his soul?” Contrary to what I’m sure you were taught, you can read and understand God’s Word all by yourself. You can even talk to God and He is anxious to hear from you. I want you to know that if you were the only person that ever lived on earth, Jesus would have done it all just for you, that’s how much God loves you.

  23. One big Problem, without getting the Bible back in Schools, it means nothing . We have a cultures that takesChristian culture some Pagan days, and times, and mixes in some . You re..f0use0d to respond to my last post. You finally admit that Trump did call himself the king of the Jews. He did not deny sying it, but they should have know that he is just kidding. Most Jews do not believe in Jesus being the Messiah, so, it is a bigger problem which should shrink hid support more.

  24. One Problem with that. There was no law against not going to Church. When Jefferson was President, there was a Muslim member of Congress. ,and they let 7th day Christians .Muslims, and Jews all practice their faith as well. so, Qu, I suggust you think haerd erabout that!!!

  25. what happened in our history books that said the persons who crossed the ocean and landed at plymouth rock, didn’t leave for reasons of religion and the catholic pope
    l

  26. Hi, Vasu, the copy/paste king 🙂 glad to see you well and on the job, guess Soros does not give sick leave! Got all the DNC talking points of the day in- must be a good day for your slow DSL in grandmas basement- you were able to get that download and brain programming on time for today’s batch of articles. Awsome! WTG!!!

  27. People, please stop trying to make Vasu go away, he won’t, the best way to deal with him is some gentle mocking and laughing at his idiocy. He cannot help his brainwashing at this point and all he has is copy/paste (which is is EXCELLENT at!) So, don’t let yourselves be bothered by someone so simple-minded that he has to use other peoples words. Laugh, poke a bit of fun his way and move on.
    He does this so you will focus on Him and not the Article we all came on the read. Don’t give him such an easy victory, instead let him know just how cute his attempts are – even if none of us are buying it.

  28. Come on Hurley, everyone needs a job, where else but Soros.org can Vasu get a job that allows him to use his copy/paste skills so well…we are good conservative capitalists- we don’t call for a boycott just because the person is annoying. 🙂

  29. Fred…HUH?????????? I never said anything about any of that. Do you do English? Read what I said. It is the truth. Read our history. Real history, not the lib indoctrination that has taken over public schools.

  30. Fred, Our founding fathers did not think much of Islam, esp. with the Barbary Wars showing how cruel the muslim pirates were.

  31. A number of both state and federal court cases established the fact that this was indeed a Christian nation. Thomas Jefferson was a fish swimming upstream against the overwhelming thought of his peers. The word religion in the first amendment, best interpreted by the thinking of the day in which it was written, meant denomination. The idea was that no particular denomination of Christianity should be able to control the spiritual state of the United States. Truth is best discovered under the freedom to interpret scripture personally. Jefferson’s famous “wall of separation” phrase was part of a letter to a group of Baptists assuring them that the Federal government would not establish another denomination as the favored church. Other faiths were allowed a certain freedom, but whether Jefferson liked it or not, the United States was considered by both the people and the leaders of his day to be a Christian nation. However, I don’t think there is any evidence that he very much resisted that fact since it was also understood that no one was to be compelled to worship in any certain way.

  32. Joe Shaw: Please do not take offence to what I’m about to say, but I do want to point out some things to you. Not everyone that is non Catholic is a Protestant. I know for myself when I go into the hospital, and they ask you what religion you are, All I write is Christian. I am not associated with one church. You mentioned the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Which clearly states we, as citizens, can bear arms. So that does not make us ignorant hillbillies that just care about owning guns and the bible. These are very dangerous times we live in, Joe. Many an innocent soul was killed in useless crimes. Especially in their own homes. So unless GOD chooses that as my fate, I will defend my family.
    I have, over many years, belonged to different unions. And from my own personal experiences, the unions did nothing for their members. But that is just my personal observation.
    What I want for any president taking office is to continue to be sworn in with his hand on the bible. But HONOR and follow the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
    These our my own personal opinions Joe. But when someone like yourself, for whatever reason, starts calling people names like you did and dishonoring GOD, I feel I must speak up. Thank you for listening to me Joe. I wish you well….

  33. Good morning dearest Linda
    How you doing darling? Ok, I have a question, it says these atheists want to “pray” I wonder who are they praying to, & if they believe prayers are answered, then they MUST believe GOD answers prayers!

  34. Good morning my dear friend!
    You know I didn’t want to appear stupid, but I was wondering the same thing! Who Are atheists supposedly praying to?? Maybe you should ask your new BFF N.A., she’s an atheist!! (LOL).
    Hope you’re doing well.
    “Talk” again!!!

  35. Jim
    You know it took me many, many years to come to that understanding & accepting. But I thank GOD that He never left me! I even realized that I left GOD, but when I “woke-up” He was still there with open arms. Ok, sorry, I just had to share that.

  36. Linda M
    Once again, you have expressed yourself eloquently! You are spot on, I don’t know about unions but I am sure the leaders in them are like other leaders, & it’s all about filling their own pockets.

  37. Good Gog, Vasu, you really are SOS, for which there is no known cure. I will pray that you have a happy death and when you meet our Maker maybe he ill explain to you how you are so wrong in your beliefs

  38. Yeah, I don’t know who or what an atheist would “pray” to. I’m an atheist, and to think that I or anyone would pray to a supernatural being who cannot be proven or demonstrated, is out of the realm of reality. Why not pray to Santa Claus. Prayer has been proven not to even work any more than left to chance. It can sometimes even be dangerous.

  39. Colleen, thanks for your response. I’m so happy you found your way back, as I’m sure you are as well. Ya know this is precisely why Jesus hated religion so much, as he called the most religious men of His time, vipers and white washed tombs. Religion is simply the traditions of men. Mark 7: 13 ” the traditions of men make the word of God of no effect” Many self professing Christians don’t know or understand that Christianity is NOT a religion, but a relationship with The Creator of all, Jesus!!!

  40. I would like to ask Vasu a couple of questions and I hope he/she reads this post.
    Vasu, I am a Christian and I believe in one all powerful God who is the creator of all things(yes even you). I read and believe what is written in Scripture as the inerrant Word of God and try to live my life accordingly. My first question to you is, “What if, I were to die tomorrow and find out I was wrong, what would I have lost?”

    The correct answer is, ” Nothing but many hours of living a pleasurable existence, which at that point, wouldn’t amount to anything, if I were wrong.”

    My second question to you is, ” What if, you were to die tomorrow, and find out that you were wrong, what would you have lost?” Think about it.

  41. To Sherry McGrady: There wasn’t a space to leave a comment for you. So I am posting this way. I am a Christian and I pray A LOT. Which has helped me my whole life. My faith has gotten me through many a dark moment. But that’s not why I’m reaching out to you. I wanted to thank you for being respectful in your posting. I am not stereotyping, but other atheists that have posted on these sites have been very disrespectful and cruel in their comments towards Christians. Which is totally uncalled for. That’s all I wanted to say. Thank you…

  42. Hello Sherry
    My Dad felt the same way as you do about prayer, but as far as I’m concerned it is my honor & pleasure to pray to GOD, I’m sorry you have not realized yet that GOD DOES answer prayers, maybe not right away & maybe it’s not the answer one wants. But as long as I know I love & worship GOD, I feel I am loved back (he even loves those that think they don’t love Him). I wish you the best Sherry, & hope one day, you will come to know of GOD’S love, He does love us all.

  43. Linda
    I agree with you, Sherry was very respectful in her response & I appreciate that. Though we disagree, I do sincerely wish her the best.

  44. You are not a middle of the road catholic. You are a fake. Your a Government worker who thinks his shi? doesn’t stink and that the rest of us owe you our taxes to support your liberal ideas !!

  45. I attend Mass at my Catholic Church, so what exactly am I missing out on? I have the financial means and I am enjoying life! I am very happy and content.

  46. Finally someone brave enough to speak out and push back against these folks here who say they are the only ones to know the “truth”. Good for you, Joe. I am glad that you are happy with your life also.

  47. Your commentary is biased by you liberal agenda.
    The first amendment far from being a “separation of church and state” at is commonly stated today is erroneous.
    The first amendment is intended to keep the government from establishing a official state Christian sect which is controlled by the government as did England.
    The first part of the first amendment means that no Christian sect can be the government or stat religion and no religion can be made to state religion.
    The second part keeps the state from infringing on the practice of any Christian sect or of any religion as long as these practices are Lawful as prescribed under the Constitution.
    In current application the state with no law being enacted, since that is prohibited by the first amendment, has established the religion of humanism and its origins doctrine as the state religion taught in the government schools to the exclusion of any other religious teaching.
    This is a violation of the first amendment, since the supreme court has declared Evolution to be a religious teaching.
    You should read the book Americas God and Country. by William Federer. it is a compilation of what the founder said and did in their own words not the interpretations and commentaries by someone who has another agenda.

  48. It’s interesting how christians don’t want people infringing on their rights to practice their way but always infringe on others. I am not a atheist but I don’t believe in in your god either. I live a good life like you do, I believe in the same rules as you do because basically those are the same rules it takes to get along with others. That doesn’t stop christians from casting stones at me and judging me. You’re not better than me, you just think you are. I was raised in church and when I got older and thought about it, it quit making sense because I quit allowing other people to think for me. We tell kids if they are not nice santa won’t come. When people get older and realize the idea of someone flying around the world in one night doesn’t make sense then we change it to if you are not nice you will burn in hell for eternity. Actually that makes as much sense as santa doesn’t it. My point, you want to believe in god then believe in god but let me believe the way I want and quit using judges and law makers to force your ways on me. America believes in freedom of religion not freedom of christianity. One last point. When christians came here they were fleeing religious persecution and the first thing they did was destroy people that didn’t believe the way they did. They hung and burned people alive and claimed they were witches and warlocks simply because they didn’t believe the way they did. I can’t think of any other group of people that mean except maybe Hitler or some other mass genocide leader.

  49. Nancy, no attacks, no threats just want to get some facts straight. Rusty is confusing Catholics with Christians and don’t forget about the Muslims

  50. Sr. Nancy Ruth: I asked the same question. But I think they just want to make a open mockery of Christians praying to God . If that is the case, I shutter to think WHO or WHAT they would lead the prayer to.

  51. Two telling things in Joe’s post – Catholic and LIFE TIME GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE. Both explain his hate and ignorance.

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